Wednesday, June 25, 2008


So, given that I have seen some interest in this and she's been linked to in a feminist carnival (I'll link to this response instead because t3h awesomeness), I'm going to address and/or snark (whichever works) Miss Andrea's "Deconstructing Transgenderism" posts and comments. Seriously, she leaves these comments all over; reminds me of the rabbit shit left all over when you don't train them to use the litterbox.
Warning, this post will contain snark, condenscendationz, speaking in lolcat and 1337, geeky references, and some actual logic-not moonlogic. I will not be nice. I am not obliged to answer or refute every little thing Andrea says, especially as much of it is illogical and/or based off of strawtrannies. Moreover, I and other trans*folk have answered it all before.
Hopefully, trans*folks and our friends and allies can find my snarking amusing; hopefully my head won't plode from the fail. Yes, plode; my head could explode or implode, the fail is that high.

Hokay, so, heres the earth...oh wait, rong, its da m00n.

Here's the first post (no technorati ratings for you!, where she links to a nice post on the fword. Hey, it's on my trans* 101/201 links! Nifty.
Then she starts on about how she's addressing the "broader philosophical concept" and not individuals, but we'll see that she completely fails at this.

Next she starts talking about how some parts are not the whole and how feminists need to learn this and I sit and think she needs to practice what she preaches, but what the hell do I know? I'm a tranny, therefore retardedz and disorderedz. Somehow this ties into crying girls and pity shields against deconstruction... I think Andrea needs to go back and learn how to organize paragraphs and sentences; and the definition of 'logical' and 'argument'. I'm not the only one that thinks so, so it's not just my reading abilities; and I can make sense of Eliade and Tolkien and the like! I is smart: SMRT!

Oh look, now she's talking about how we can either look at the larger issue or make it about you and we can't have both.
So if I'm discussing how women (trans* & cis*) are treated shitty compared to cis*men, y'all can't give personal examples? Oh, and now apparently it's impossible to talk about someone, their experiences, and/or feelings without being mean. OK, the next time I discuss what it's like to be trans* I'll keep this in mind--by talking about me I've made it okay to call me a retard and a liar. Makes total logical sense; moonlogic that is.

And just as "freshly raped" person shouldn't argue about rape, freshly transitioned folks shouldn't argue about trans*ism. Yesh, this makes t0t4l s3ns3! 0, and that phrase, "freshly raped", is a direct quote. *headdesk*
Ya Rly, leik t0ta11y wh0a.
This post is all rather rambling and doesn't seem to say much. Except, of course, lulz 2 c0me!eleventyone

Now, "Deconstructing Transgenderism Part One":
After some more rambling, we come to this bit of fun, "Unless I am mistaken, she[Twisty] likes transgendered folk for the same reason that most feminists seem to like them — they prove gender is fluid."
So, I know there are some folks out there that think that we prove gender is fluid and being trans* destabilizes the pat and all that jazz. I've met, liek, one person that thought this, but then maybe I just haven't been in the right groups. Julia Serano talks about this sort of thinking in Whipping Girl and I think she, as someone who has had experience with them, is better at refuting this than I could be. To summarize Ms Serano's points: this sort of thinking privileges 'subversive' genders and gender expressions over 'conventional' ones. Moreover, they often ungender trans*folk who identify within the man/woman binary.

And there are obviously leik no feminists who like us because, ya know, we're their friends/family/coworkers/etc. and we're human beings. And, ya know, they don't think they have sup4r mind reading p0wers to disprove what we say about ourselves.

Next she acts like all trans*folk transition 'all the way to the end' (whatev that means) and identify within the binary. [insert long and verbose screed about how not all trans*folk transition or identify within binary; check out my trans* 101 links if you need it]
Unfortunately, all her posts and comments that I've seen seem to think this, so yeah. She's leik, way behind trans* activism and theories and whatnotz. Sooo 1950's.
And then theres more ranting about how no one would transition if we didn't think certain traits were male and others female...And I sit here thinking about how if that was why I transitioned I did it in the wrong direction.

...and now theres more of that wonderful "penis to pick up a hammer" analogy (only now with more sodium!vaginas picking up vacuums!) I quoted before... Dear Gods, why? Why must you keep referencing tentacle monsters and hentai! I didn't bring it up, you and your commenters do! It's your porno mind, not mine!
NOT MY KINK! But give me Sam/Bee transformers pron anyday...
And now, slightly better, I get the picture of stereotypical!gay-man-who-thinks-he-must-transition going around in a vag' boutique choosing which one he wants...while he has a little dog in his purse. And for some reason he looks and acts like Carson from Queer eye...

plx, save me?

Noes! Cannot be sav3d, i must make my time
now there is old meme, we transition for fetish or cause we gay. old meme makes Snape take points from Gryffindor; now you lose house cup.

Lastly theres something or other about trans*women's tear-stained bits...
Again, not my kink...

But, I can't forget the comments! Noes, t3h comments are almost better than the post itself. Theres the: OMGz!!! Trannies are totally trannies because they like hentai!! All tranies leik t3h hentai!
OMGz, fetish! perverts! disorderz! rapeistez! schitzoes! OMGZ!!!!!!11111!eleventyoneoneOhNoes!

"I can has hentai?" says the strawtranny.
"I madez you a hentai, but radfems eated pastryarchy" says the sex pox feminist.

There, we learn from t3h genious KA, that we all gotz t3h fetish or t3h OCD. I guess I must has t3h OCD since I don't has t3h fetish. Maybe I catch the fetish from my trans* friends? Afterallz, I can't stand being left out; justt leik I am a man because of how manly I amz. *strikes a pose*
*trips on feather boa* oops, my slip is teh showing.

Sastuma yet again tells how real lesbians don't like sex or porn... Maybe she knows all the lesbians who bring up sex are actually mtf folks because of her clear-eyed lesbean gaze?

KA does a remix on the trans*women luurve being abused whores trope:
"It’s the rape and total control over a synthetic female body, giving him and any other man he includes full access to treating women the way they both love to fetishize treating women. They then strengthen the conditioned response to female parts with their misogynist sex.That’s why you see so many misogynists patronizing MtF prostitutes, and MtF prostitutes happy to do it. Sexist men look out for each other and will cooperate to control women’s bodies in any novel way they can think of."
Yes, KA and Andrea (she told KA she loved her comments and how true the are) are saying that trans*women like being raped. That they like being prostitutes because they like enacting abuse on "synthetic female bodies".
I cannot make a joke out of this. And on that note, I'm done for now. After I eat and do the dishes I'll do the third post and various comments in another post. The FAIL, especially that last bit I quoted, is making me literally sick.

ETA: mAndrea does believe in differences between the sexes!


Nick Kiddle said...

Reading that crap makes me feel like I've been for a swim in the sewers. And yet someone has to read it and take it down. Thanks Drakyn.

Renegade Evolution said...

she's a real piece of work, isn't she? all that hate, and in such small portions, as belle would say.

Drakyn said...

Nick, it makes me have even more respect for folks like Lisa and Susan Stryker (who responded to the Transsexual Empire).

And yeah, she is a real piece of work; I can't wait to do the next post (can has sarcasm).

GallingGalla said...

And just as "freshly raped" person shouldn't argue about rape

WTF? "You were raped less than 24 hours ago, you can't talk about it, you're not ripe yet"? Is mandrea even sane?

Maybe she knows all the lesbians who bring up sex are actually mtf folks because of her clear-eyed lesbean gaze?

ZOMG, did she just outez belledame? And Carol Queen? And Dossie Easton? and...and...and...Patrick Califia? Who knew that Patrick was reely mtf? **snerk**

Q: Wasn't it Sharon Stone that responded to The Transsexual Empire ("The Empire Strikes Back")?

Drakyn said...

Oops,yeah, my bad, it was Sandy Stone. Sorry, I got confused. But both their names start with s's!

And I'm trying to do better with ableism, can we try not to use words like crazy to describe her?
I know I've been, and am, really bad about this but I want to do better.

And maybe it's not that they're all mtf folks, maybe some of them--especially those who are into BDSM--are just possessed by demons (oh Heart, that will never get old).

Lisa Harney said...

Possessed by demons?

Please elaborate.

Drakyn said...

Slight misremembering, but Satsuma said it and then heart quoted that passage and said she totally agreed.
Heres the passage Heart quoted, "Love will drive out the demonic forces of S/M and porn."

nixwilliams said...

i think i threw up a little at the "freshly raped" bit. so much no thank you.

Anonymous said...


oh dear..."freshly raped?"

Not enough brain bleach in the world...

I suppose she fancies herself the pop up timer of rape victim's doneness.

Thanks to everyone who posted responses to this insanity. I am beside myself that "feminists" still see fit to beat up on trans women, and "feminists" like Nathalie see fit to disseminate hate speech.

Elly said...

I'm a bit puzzled when I see all the heated debates on transpeople... I mean, I understand there can be discussion on transgenderism and there can be transphobia and I can understand when a cisgender woman is reticent to let a transwoman enter in a "safe space"...

But, so much ? Since I started looking at american feminist blogs and some boards and such, I saw a real lot of "discussions" on this topic.

Of course there is a bias because I mainly look at trans/trans-friendly blogs, so they are bound to talk about this more. But even then, I have the impression that there is a lot of discussion on this subject. And this seems like a very divisive question among feminists.

So I wondered, is it specific to the Internet or does this reflect the real state of discussion in real life groups and so on ?

I am curious, because these issues aren't at all the same than those present in my country (France)'s feminist circles, and I wonder why this is so different since the divisive questions are usually more or less the same (e.g.prostitution, pornography and such)(maybe because we are so occupied excluding muslim women, so there is no time left for transphobia ?)

belledame222 said...

I will just say that I was rather stunned to discover that apparently a bunch of British and U.S. feminists are apparently stuck in the 1970's, in a number of ways, when I came online. I hadn't encountered anything like this in my real life circles. Obviously there's a connection, and even the really strange Internet characters do get off the 'Net and have real lives and presumably real activism in some cases, and I won't presume to say it's only on the Internet (and thus not a real problem; obviously it is). Otoh I do think there's something about the medium that seems to bring this shit out. it's like Hyde Park without needing any actual soapboxes.

belledame222 said...

And there are obviously leik no feminists who like us because, ya know, we're their friends/family/coworkers/etc. and we're human beings.

Well duh. Your symbolism is just so FABULOUS, darling: could you come to our next party and be the centerpiece? Ice carvings are so last year.

also, there are no, repeat, no parallels or overlap between this bullshit and homophobia, and I'd have no reason to take the latter personally anyway.

Drakyn said...

Elly, I'm not sure because I don't do much outside the internet, but the few groups I've been a part of were pretty cool.
In us feminism theres been this constant strife because a music festival, which is rather important to many groups of feminists because it is more than just a music festival, won't allow trans*women in. The owners of the festival are really transphobic so this is unlikely to change.
Theres a protest festival that happens now, Camp Trans, and that's turned into more than just a protest too. A friend of mine helps organize that, so now theres activist workshops, various workshops and support groups, fun things to do, and he says its a really trans-positive, healing space. (can you tell I want to go?)

One reason why US and UK feminists are so anti-trans* though is because a lot of the older, more famous (english-speaking) feminist thinkers were really anti-trans*. Janice Raymond, Mary Daly, and Sheila Jeffreys to name a few. Their works still shape feminism and too few big-name feminists have come out as trans-positive to counter this (from what I can tell). And the anti-trans* folks still writing, it's not all stuff from the 70's. Check out the website for the Vancouver Rape relief Center, there are a bunch of anti-trans* writings there that are fairly new. VRrC, btw, is the place that went to court to keep a trans*woman from volunteering there.

And I write a lot about trans* stuff because that's my focus. ^.^

Helen G said...

Thank you for linking to my piece at The F-Word, and for your kind words.
*curtseys politely*

Drakyn said...

No prob' Helen, it's a nice piece of writing. ^.^